Now, for every driver is gonna be a different case, but overall from the written and spoken testimonies, you have heard that most drivers have lost money last year, mainly due to the lockouts now the amount of money that they have lost varies from drivers to driver, because remember the lockoutswere very random so they were some drivers that never got locked out, whereas many drivers got locked out for most of the days
As a person that saw the whole Tlc meeting, I can say that I have lost most hope in the TLC rectifying the disaster that they are responsible for. I have seen time and time again the TLC deflecting their accountability towards Uber and LYFT when the fact is the TLC are the main culprits to our downfall.
My gross income with Uber and LYFT fell to 20% compared to the year before. So pretty much due to the lockouts I lost 80% of my gross income with Uber and LYFT.
Well, you know in my case it’s a little bit more complicated than the average for higher vehicle worker who only relies on Uber and Lyft. My gross income went with Uber and LYFT has always accounted for at least 50% of my total gross income and then the other 50% Comes from non-emergency medical transportation, but ever since the lockout my Uber and LYFT gross income has fallen to 20% of my total gross income.
Today, even though we don’t have any lockouts for now, ridership has gone down or maybe Uber and Lyft or sending more rides to the EV‘s but whatever the case I have only been Able to bring up my app gross income from 20 percent to 30 percent
Overall, I have had to look elsewhere to make up for the missing 20% gross income that I was getting from Uber and Lyft in years past
So basically today in 2025 there are no lockouts, but there are less rides
I think this is a better explanation of the $4 rides situation, first it’s worth saying that it all started if not just days before Congestion pricing right at the same time and here’s is what happened:
Before, Uber/Lyft had what was called a “Minimum fare supplement” where if for example a 5 minutes ride would pay the driver based on the per mile and per minute rates $3.99 the Minimum Fare Supplement would add the difference to make it $5.47 based on a Uber criteria if the ride was under a certain minute and mile treshold. Because of that in some scenarios it would be worth doing a 3 minute trip vs doing a 8-10 minute trip since the 8-10 minute trip would be $1-$2 more only but most likely spending more time to drop off the passenger going to the same distance, example less than 0.5 miles for both scenarios. What Uber/Lyft did so the passengers wouldn’t feel the new $1.50 congestion pricing toll and so they wouldn’t have to increase the price for short local rides they took the Minimum fare Supplement away from the drivers and kept the same prices for local short trips for riders. This way it didn’t affect Uber commissions for those rider but their rider’s pockets either, Drivers were the obly ones that took a hit on the congestion pricing fee basically.
Hope I was able to explain it in a way it’s easy to understand.
The short local rides that before congestion pricing used to cost $13 to the riders for a 5 minutes and 0.5 miles (just an example, of course it varies during surge times), continued to cost the same after congestion pricing started.
Similar to what they did to the tolls going from and to NYC-NJ, NJ-NYC before they would pay the driver $20 for tolls to go to NJ and $20 for tolls if you took a rider in NJ that would take you to NYC, now they pay $14-$16 IN TOLLS to go to NJ and the same to come back, depending if it during peak or non peak hours so that they didn’t have to put the burden of the congestion pricing into the riders pockets.
The changes to the tolls to and from NJ they did announce and emailed the drivers about it. Because at the end of the day it’s all tolls and they were paying more to the drivers. The Minimum fare Supplement they knew how much controversy would bring and they didn’t even notified drivers about it, drivers started finding out as they were completing those trips.
That’s a good question, it would really depend on the level of understanding of each driver of the reasons behind it but I can say both due to the fact that Lyft can end up kicking off drivers that have been with them for years instead of the ones helping them achieve certain mandates for example green rides initiatives for sure they’ll keep their higher tier drivers also a.k.a the ones that driver more for them than with Uber since they’ll need to keep the ones they can rely on. But someone that doesn’t have a good understanding of yhe industry would blame the TLC because that’s what lyft would tell them not necessarily because they know where TLC also failed(because they did).
Honestly in the event of a pay raise I would think they would pass the increase onto the passengers since is the only option they’ll have, they are very picky with their commissions , looks like they have a lot of bills. If that rule package goes through it might be harder for them to do lockouts but no mt impossible, ultimately it would be up to the TLC, see if they are really going to closely monitor and quickly penalize lockouts behaviors and adjust UR rates accordingly. At that point yes if the Apps feel cornered like that they’ll just get rid of a bunch drivers, which I think it would most likely be a Lyft thing more than Uber if Uber statements in the past are true about their problem not being the amount of drivers they have but the fact they dont have a standalone UR (numbers seem to show their numbers are just right there, does not look like they have that under control). But ultimately I feel like the whole kicking off drivers it’s whats going to happen but Its going to keep getting extended until they have no other choice.
If they do get rid of drivers (as Lyft warned re. 1,200+) will those drivers blame TLC or Lyft more? Both? Ultimately Lyft might say we had to do this to keep UR up, etc (although truth might be they could have cut their commissions, but that's not regulated). TLC driver gets permanently kicked off (beyond lockouts), who are they blaming more?
Well, Uber and LYFT are clearly gonna tell the drivers that they’re getting kicked off because of the TLC so ultimately those drivers are gonna blame the TLC when the reality is that is all of their faults
Great explanation! What you're saying makes a lot of sense and the timing re. congestion pricing is not something would have connected. As you say "Drivers were the only ones that took a hit on the congestion pricing fee basically." Extrapolating that logic to the driver pay raise, at a certain point in time if Uber and Lyft want to maintain their commissions (take) and not hit passengers with higher fares, they'll be lockouts again or drivers getting permanently kicked off? What's your sense of it?
I feel like Uber and Lyft have gotten to a point where they have reached the ceiling to how much they can charge a passenger. They’re algorithm already knows passenger behavior and knows exactly how much each passenger is willing to pay and what is their max so any increase in driver pay is ultimately gonna come out of driver’s pockets because Uber and Lyft are not going to cut their commission because they are in the business of maximizing profits and they will do so no matter what
It’s really sad the state of affairs that the nYc Taxi industry is currently in. The fact that we can get paid as little as $4 for a ride is insulting.
*Correction: Minimum fare supplement wasn't removed but was adjusted so the max it would be for those short trips is around $4.
Now, for every driver is gonna be a different case, but overall from the written and spoken testimonies, you have heard that most drivers have lost money last year, mainly due to the lockouts now the amount of money that they have lost varies from drivers to driver, because remember the lockoutswere very random so they were some drivers that never got locked out, whereas many drivers got locked out for most of the days
As a person that saw the whole Tlc meeting, I can say that I have lost most hope in the TLC rectifying the disaster that they are responsible for. I have seen time and time again the TLC deflecting their accountability towards Uber and LYFT when the fact is the TLC are the main culprits to our downfall.
My gross income with Uber and LYFT fell to 20% compared to the year before. So pretty much due to the lockouts I lost 80% of my gross income with Uber and LYFT.
Sorry to hear that Lenny. Are you not working on for the apps that much anymore or they aren't sending you trips (you're locked out)?
Well, you know in my case it’s a little bit more complicated than the average for higher vehicle worker who only relies on Uber and Lyft. My gross income went with Uber and LYFT has always accounted for at least 50% of my total gross income and then the other 50% Comes from non-emergency medical transportation, but ever since the lockout my Uber and LYFT gross income has fallen to 20% of my total gross income.
Today, even though we don’t have any lockouts for now, ridership has gone down or maybe Uber and Lyft or sending more rides to the EV‘s but whatever the case I have only been Able to bring up my app gross income from 20 percent to 30 percent
Overall, I have had to look elsewhere to make up for the missing 20% gross income that I was getting from Uber and Lyft in years past
So basically today in 2025 there are no lockouts, but there are less rides
I think this is a better explanation of the $4 rides situation, first it’s worth saying that it all started if not just days before Congestion pricing right at the same time and here’s is what happened:
Before, Uber/Lyft had what was called a “Minimum fare supplement” where if for example a 5 minutes ride would pay the driver based on the per mile and per minute rates $3.99 the Minimum Fare Supplement would add the difference to make it $5.47 based on a Uber criteria if the ride was under a certain minute and mile treshold. Because of that in some scenarios it would be worth doing a 3 minute trip vs doing a 8-10 minute trip since the 8-10 minute trip would be $1-$2 more only but most likely spending more time to drop off the passenger going to the same distance, example less than 0.5 miles for both scenarios. What Uber/Lyft did so the passengers wouldn’t feel the new $1.50 congestion pricing toll and so they wouldn’t have to increase the price for short local rides they took the Minimum fare Supplement away from the drivers and kept the same prices for local short trips for riders. This way it didn’t affect Uber commissions for those rider but their rider’s pockets either, Drivers were the obly ones that took a hit on the congestion pricing fee basically.
Hope I was able to explain it in a way it’s easy to understand.
The short local rides that before congestion pricing used to cost $13 to the riders for a 5 minutes and 0.5 miles (just an example, of course it varies during surge times), continued to cost the same after congestion pricing started.
Similar to what they did to the tolls going from and to NYC-NJ, NJ-NYC before they would pay the driver $20 for tolls to go to NJ and $20 for tolls if you took a rider in NJ that would take you to NYC, now they pay $14-$16 IN TOLLS to go to NJ and the same to come back, depending if it during peak or non peak hours so that they didn’t have to put the burden of the congestion pricing into the riders pockets.
The changes to the tolls to and from NJ they did announce and emailed the drivers about it. Because at the end of the day it’s all tolls and they were paying more to the drivers. The Minimum fare Supplement they knew how much controversy would bring and they didn’t even notified drivers about it, drivers started finding out as they were completing those trips.
That’s a good question, it would really depend on the level of understanding of each driver of the reasons behind it but I can say both due to the fact that Lyft can end up kicking off drivers that have been with them for years instead of the ones helping them achieve certain mandates for example green rides initiatives for sure they’ll keep their higher tier drivers also a.k.a the ones that driver more for them than with Uber since they’ll need to keep the ones they can rely on. But someone that doesn’t have a good understanding of yhe industry would blame the TLC because that’s what lyft would tell them not necessarily because they know where TLC also failed(because they did).
Honestly in the event of a pay raise I would think they would pass the increase onto the passengers since is the only option they’ll have, they are very picky with their commissions , looks like they have a lot of bills. If that rule package goes through it might be harder for them to do lockouts but no mt impossible, ultimately it would be up to the TLC, see if they are really going to closely monitor and quickly penalize lockouts behaviors and adjust UR rates accordingly. At that point yes if the Apps feel cornered like that they’ll just get rid of a bunch drivers, which I think it would most likely be a Lyft thing more than Uber if Uber statements in the past are true about their problem not being the amount of drivers they have but the fact they dont have a standalone UR (numbers seem to show their numbers are just right there, does not look like they have that under control). But ultimately I feel like the whole kicking off drivers it’s whats going to happen but Its going to keep getting extended until they have no other choice.
If they do get rid of drivers (as Lyft warned re. 1,200+) will those drivers blame TLC or Lyft more? Both? Ultimately Lyft might say we had to do this to keep UR up, etc (although truth might be they could have cut their commissions, but that's not regulated). TLC driver gets permanently kicked off (beyond lockouts), who are they blaming more?
Well, Uber and LYFT are clearly gonna tell the drivers that they’re getting kicked off because of the TLC so ultimately those drivers are gonna blame the TLC when the reality is that is all of their faults
Great explanation! What you're saying makes a lot of sense and the timing re. congestion pricing is not something would have connected. As you say "Drivers were the only ones that took a hit on the congestion pricing fee basically." Extrapolating that logic to the driver pay raise, at a certain point in time if Uber and Lyft want to maintain their commissions (take) and not hit passengers with higher fares, they'll be lockouts again or drivers getting permanently kicked off? What's your sense of it?
I feel like Uber and Lyft have gotten to a point where they have reached the ceiling to how much they can charge a passenger. They’re algorithm already knows passenger behavior and knows exactly how much each passenger is willing to pay and what is their max so any increase in driver pay is ultimately gonna come out of driver’s pockets because Uber and Lyft are not going to cut their commission because they are in the business of maximizing profits and they will do so no matter what
Agree, they will kick off drivers before cutting their commissions.
It’s really sad the state of affairs that the nYc Taxi industry is currently in. The fact that we can get paid as little as $4 for a ride is insulting.