NYC TLC Chair David Do, along with other City leaders, help Revel officially open third public Superhub in NYC. LIC Superhub has 14 fast charging plugs providing 150 kW speeds, considered “ultrafast”
Nov 3, 2023·edited Nov 3, 2023Liked by AutoMarketplace
What a ripoff. What this article was missing was how much REVEL will be charging for the use of their Superhub. According to Revel’s website they charge 49¢ per kWh. NYS/NYC sales tax is 4.35¢ per kWh (8.875%) and a combined Federal excise tax and surtax fee is 3¢ per kWh for a total of 56.35¢ per kWh. A basic 2022 Tesla 3 rear-wheel drive has a range of 272 miles (Tesla website) and requires a total of 70 kWh to fully charge the battery (Energysage.com). So, in order to charge this particular EV it will cost you about $39.45. Considering you only get a 272-mile range for that price, this comes out to 14.5¢ per mile.
A conventional (non-hybrid) Toyota Camry (2022 model, front wheel drive) will get you about 35 mpg combined city and highway mileage. Considering gasoline is about $3.57 per gallon now, the dollars per mile fuel expense for this gasoline powered vehicle is 10.2¢ per mile. These numbers, of course, change for Toyota Hybrid vehicles, which can fetch as much as 50 mpg and would bring the cost per mile even lower.
You are basically paying 42% more per mile to fuel an electric vehicle if you charge at a Revel Superhub versus driving a gasoline-powered Toyota Camry. You also only get a range of 272 miles with the Model 3 RWD whereas with the Toyota it’s possible to be at about 595 miles on a full tank (17 gallons).
You will, of course, have to wait about 30 minutes to charge your Tesla 3 after you have driven to one of the very few Superhub charging stations now currently available. This, too, will take time and you better hope there is no line at the Superhub once you arrive. It goes without say (with the exception of the CBD in Manhattan), gasoline stations are everywhere in NYC and rarely is there a wait for a gasoline fill-up that will take about 1/10th of the time to charge an EV and you get at least double the mileage range per fill-up.
In my view, this is a ripoff for drivers however Revel is smart to provide these Superhub stations as they will be massive profit centers for them and their investors. Unless drivers have chargers at home, using these Revel Superhubs will be a costly and time consuming headache. Good luck, independent EV drivers.
Great analysis. Also this is just their press release, we only distributed it. We didn't edit or add to it in anyway (just for the record). We definitely understand and agree with many of your points 👍. We'll be covering those topics more as well. We also don't think the economics of these EV "Superhubs" in NYC is even that profitable of a business btw, unless they start adding convenience stores, etc..
Considering the average kWh wholesales for under under 9¢, a minimum 400% gross profit margin is not bad considering their is no building infrastructure, little land use, no employees, and few other expenses that I can think of, therefore your net profit margin is going to be very high, too. Ask any Bolla convenience store manager and they would kill for those profit margins. Just my opinion.
How much do they charge retail per kWh? For example, an average charge (takes 10 mins let's say and occupied 75% of the time, 24/7 - being generous) what's the absolute $ amount of profit per charge ($ amount vs. margin)? You also have to factor in immense upfront costs ($50k per supercharger maybe? * by 20 = $1 million) and all the opex (net vs. gross margins). It's a lot more math.
Nov 3, 2023·edited Nov 3, 2023Liked by AutoMarketplace
Per kWh charge is 49¢ and electricity sells wholesale for under 9¢. That’s a 40¢ gross profit. An EV requiring 70 kWh may take 30 minutes. Gross profit would be $28 for that half hour. Assuming the charger is only used half the time day or night then that translates to $245k gross profit over a year’s time per charger. According to appinventiv.com a charging station can cost from $60k to $350k.
Okay, following your math and assumption .You're saying you make back the cost of the charger back between 6 months to little over one year. Okay $245k gross profit per charger per year (doesn't sound unreasonable). What's the allocated cost of leasing that parcel of land where the charger is located per year in NYC, inclusive of property taxes and other real estate fees? In addition, many chargers go out of service, so that implies there will also be a maintenance cost related to that (i.e., labor, parts, etc.). In the end, it's not a good use of NYC real estate and will have a lot of competition arise, which will squeeze gross margins. Charging stations will have single digit utility margins most likely. For example, gross margins will compress as more charging stations open, it becomes a commodity service where people solve for utilization rates. It somewhat follows gas station business model over time. Not saying it's a bad biz, it's not a great biz that VCs will be excited about. For example, Tesla is more vertically integrated, they have totally different unit economics and benefits from their charging stations as an OEM vs Revel.
Revel will have 2k W-2 EMPLOYEE drivers. Uber has zero employee drivers because Uber contracts with self-employed independent drivers (1099 tax). Right now Revel doesn’t have to pay those employee workers minimum driver pay like Uber and Lyft do. Once they have surpassed a certain threshold Revel very well may be subjected to those very same minimum compensation rules as Uber and Lyft. It’s possible this could become onerous for Revel. We’ll have to wait and see how this plays out.
What a ripoff. What this article was missing was how much REVEL will be charging for the use of their Superhub. According to Revel’s website they charge 49¢ per kWh. NYS/NYC sales tax is 4.35¢ per kWh (8.875%) and a combined Federal excise tax and surtax fee is 3¢ per kWh for a total of 56.35¢ per kWh. A basic 2022 Tesla 3 rear-wheel drive has a range of 272 miles (Tesla website) and requires a total of 70 kWh to fully charge the battery (Energysage.com). So, in order to charge this particular EV it will cost you about $39.45. Considering you only get a 272-mile range for that price, this comes out to 14.5¢ per mile.
A conventional (non-hybrid) Toyota Camry (2022 model, front wheel drive) will get you about 35 mpg combined city and highway mileage. Considering gasoline is about $3.57 per gallon now, the dollars per mile fuel expense for this gasoline powered vehicle is 10.2¢ per mile. These numbers, of course, change for Toyota Hybrid vehicles, which can fetch as much as 50 mpg and would bring the cost per mile even lower.
You are basically paying 42% more per mile to fuel an electric vehicle if you charge at a Revel Superhub versus driving a gasoline-powered Toyota Camry. You also only get a range of 272 miles with the Model 3 RWD whereas with the Toyota it’s possible to be at about 595 miles on a full tank (17 gallons).
You will, of course, have to wait about 30 minutes to charge your Tesla 3 after you have driven to one of the very few Superhub charging stations now currently available. This, too, will take time and you better hope there is no line at the Superhub once you arrive. It goes without say (with the exception of the CBD in Manhattan), gasoline stations are everywhere in NYC and rarely is there a wait for a gasoline fill-up that will take about 1/10th of the time to charge an EV and you get at least double the mileage range per fill-up.
In my view, this is a ripoff for drivers however Revel is smart to provide these Superhub stations as they will be massive profit centers for them and their investors. Unless drivers have chargers at home, using these Revel Superhubs will be a costly and time consuming headache. Good luck, independent EV drivers.
Great analysis. Also this is just their press release, we only distributed it. We didn't edit or add to it in anyway (just for the record). We definitely understand and agree with many of your points 👍. We'll be covering those topics more as well. We also don't think the economics of these EV "Superhubs" in NYC is even that profitable of a business btw, unless they start adding convenience stores, etc..
Considering the average kWh wholesales for under under 9¢, a minimum 400% gross profit margin is not bad considering their is no building infrastructure, little land use, no employees, and few other expenses that I can think of, therefore your net profit margin is going to be very high, too. Ask any Bolla convenience store manager and they would kill for those profit margins. Just my opinion.
How much do they charge retail per kWh? For example, an average charge (takes 10 mins let's say and occupied 75% of the time, 24/7 - being generous) what's the absolute $ amount of profit per charge ($ amount vs. margin)? You also have to factor in immense upfront costs ($50k per supercharger maybe? * by 20 = $1 million) and all the opex (net vs. gross margins). It's a lot more math.
Per kWh charge is 49¢ and electricity sells wholesale for under 9¢. That’s a 40¢ gross profit. An EV requiring 70 kWh may take 30 minutes. Gross profit would be $28 for that half hour. Assuming the charger is only used half the time day or night then that translates to $245k gross profit over a year’s time per charger. According to appinventiv.com a charging station can cost from $60k to $350k.
Okay, following your math and assumption .You're saying you make back the cost of the charger back between 6 months to little over one year. Okay $245k gross profit per charger per year (doesn't sound unreasonable). What's the allocated cost of leasing that parcel of land where the charger is located per year in NYC, inclusive of property taxes and other real estate fees? In addition, many chargers go out of service, so that implies there will also be a maintenance cost related to that (i.e., labor, parts, etc.). In the end, it's not a good use of NYC real estate and will have a lot of competition arise, which will squeeze gross margins. Charging stations will have single digit utility margins most likely. For example, gross margins will compress as more charging stations open, it becomes a commodity service where people solve for utilization rates. It somewhat follows gas station business model over time. Not saying it's a bad biz, it's not a great biz that VCs will be excited about. For example, Tesla is more vertically integrated, they have totally different unit economics and benefits from their charging stations as an OEM vs Revel.
Revel will have 2k drivers early next year looks like they are going to take over from Uber.
Revel will have 2k W-2 EMPLOYEE drivers. Uber has zero employee drivers because Uber contracts with self-employed independent drivers (1099 tax). Right now Revel doesn’t have to pay those employee workers minimum driver pay like Uber and Lyft do. Once they have surpassed a certain threshold Revel very well may be subjected to those very same minimum compensation rules as Uber and Lyft. It’s possible this could become onerous for Revel. We’ll have to wait and see how this plays out.